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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  March 29, 2011 11:00pm-12:00am EDT

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don't want to share in the burdens. they want you and i and the viewers to pick up the burdens. >> david cay johnston always a pleasure. great to have you with us tonight. >> thank you. >> tonight in our survey i asked are republicans only patriotic when one of their own is in the white house? 98% of you said yes. 2%
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i am joined tonight by my friend and colleague, chris jinxing with the lead from new york. what do you have? >> we are going to introduce you to a rebel leader and show you where and gaddafi's military struck hardest. this is how the situation is playing out over the airwaves. >> political tools, diplomatic tools, shepherds, all of which continue to tighten the noose. >> we are involved in a much more extensive operation and others have acknowledged. >> we are protecting civilians. if that is a passive action, they were obviously wrong. >> we should bomb first because we have the know-how how to kick but. that is what america does very well. >> i do not see how gaddafi can survive this. >> hillary clinton is joining an international conference and efforts there to focus on getting khaddafi out. >> we must not attempt to
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employes our will on the people of libya, but we can and must stand with them as they determine their own destiny. >> this is a template for the future. there has to be other nations stepping up. >> that was on the air on the ground tonight. rebel forces are regrouping after pro gaddafi fighters opened a brutal counterattack that set them running for their lives and away from the fight. without air support, the rebels are outgunned and may not be able to take another city. the question before president obama now, should be our u.s. arm the rebels? >> i am not ruling it out or in. >> we will have more from the president in a one-on-one interview with brian williams later in this hour. the air starks' targeted tripoli tonight. 22 tomahawk missiles. the largest air assault in
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recent days. the defense department says the price tag for u.s. taxpayers so far is about $550 million. that is expected to run about $40 million more over the next three weeks. hillary clinton today called this a turning point in libya when she was in london. she met with one of the rebel leaders. what are you seeing on the ground in libya? >> i still can't get over that number, $550 million to destroy tanks from the air. i don't understand how the price tag gets so high so quickly. it could look like a turning point on the ground, but for gaddafi's forces, he is crushing the rebellion. horrible reports emerging. here in the east, his troops began a counteroffensive, erasing many of the gains they had accomplished. >> at times today the rebel front line looked more like a
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desert rally than a military campaign. rebels speeding away, retreating. with tanks, artillery and flanking maneuvers, gaddafi's trips easily drove the rebels back, far away from gaddafi's hometown. from a safe distance, the rebels fired back, but they are well out of range. witnesses say gaddafi is also planting land mines in the desert, making any ground advance even more difficult. the worst fighting appears to be in the west, in ms. randa, deep inside gaddafi's territory. saving this town today is as urgent as saving been gauzy was a few days ago. >> they have taken women out of their homes and assassinated people on site.
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they are stopping -- mr. obama mentioned that. >> in the rebel capital, president obama's speech was university welcomed. bankers stressed that the united states won't topple the doffing militarily but will help libyans do it themselves. men remain grateful for the american intervention. >> i would like to show my gratitude. i appreciate what they have done for us. >> on the front line, it is clear that without sustained western air support, the rebels can't take territory or hold it either. >> rebel leaders say they are finally starting to understand that simply driving to the front line and turning around every time they see gaddafi's forces is not accomplishing anything. the rebel leaders say they need weapons but also warned discipline and organization.
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>> you asked about a $550 million. according to the pentagon, another forty million for the next three weeks. the big drop is because they are expecting a sharp drop in the use of u.s. fighter jets, aerial tanker refueling, intelligence, reconnaissance flights, the question is, how do the rebels operate if that is going to be where the u.s. is going forward, or will nato and other countries make up the difference? >> look what happened today. the air strikes, the rebels basically had no air cover today in the east. the air strikes stopped for a while. gaddafi was able to completely drive back the rebels who got in their cars and drove in the other direction. if the west is going to continue to take its foot off the gas, the rebels could get eliminated. also, there is a question of saving the libyan people.
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where i am right now, we are safe. there is a bubble and corridor that will be expensive as well. >> we were talking earlier about hillary clinton in the meeting that was held in london today considered very important. let me play for you the reaction of joe lieberman following this meeting. >> the best way to make libya into a country where al qaeda could gain a foothold would be to tolerate a stalemate, a civil war. we should join france and carter and recognize the transitional national council, the free libyan movement and alsoe shld armthem. >>ecnizing tha counsel is something the u.s. is moving slowly on. they need to make sure who would be part of a transitional government. let me ask you about that last, specific point, which is whether
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to on the rebels. is it clear, because this has been described as a ragtag band of patriots. do they know how to use arms? >> no, and that is a very good point. the weapons they are asking for, they have ak-47s, they want shoulder launched rockets and things we were giving in the '80s. that did not work out so well for the world. they want sophisticated weaponry that can destroy tanks and bring distances. they would even like helicopters. they don't know how to use any of this. you have to give them training and training forces, sometimes advisers on the ground current we have been told that there is egypt and expect some of those trainers to arrive. as senator lieberman was talking about, all of these actors coming into the battlefield is
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very chaotic. private weapons trainers, al qaeda does have a presence, this is on the border with chad. sudan in the corner. a lot of different groups in this country. if you have chaos and a long stalemate, it would not benefit anybody, not the results and certainly not united states. >> i want to bring in army colonel, jack jacobs. even if there were trainers brought in from egypt, what is the boot camp of the united states? 16 weeks. >> we do not have that kind of time. it takes about 12 to 16 weeks to train an infantryman in the most basic of tactics. that doesn't include advanced training and use of advanced weapons as well. i can't see how the rebels can do it. you have to have a huge influx of trainers in the country. >> let's look at some of the
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maps. even if the rebels were armed and we had this training, you can't quit fighting. tell us where we are right now. richard mentioned that suddenly today no air support. >> back and forth has been wholly a function of how much air support has been available. at the beginning the rebels went very far. the counter attack went very far back. more air support came in and the liinof air support, khaddafi's forces drove them back again. >> that is a shocking picture when you literally see them getting in their vehicles and fleeing in the other directions. where was the air support and why suddenly does it seemngstwa mass troops, tanks, artillery
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pieces and the rest. that is easy to do. when you are talking about these rebels wanting support, they want close air support, our aircraft to fly at relatively low altitudes to shoot machine guns at the enemies. that is not going to happen. >> always good to see you. >> good to see you to. >> coming up, arming the rebels and setting a precedent. president obama sits down with brian williams. >> how do you not offer the rebels direct assistance of som? >> the president answers that question. if the door has been open for intervention in other regional hotspots, that is when rage and revolution continues. ng ] shhhh. did you hear that? it sounded like the chocobeast. the what? half man, half beast. he'll stop at nothing to sink his fangs into people who steal other people's chocolate temptations.
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there was a real feel for what people the the revolt in the mid east is expressed in the graffiti on the walls. here the graffiti says things like down with gaddafi and out with the dictator. there is also a great deal of graffiti like this. there is an undercurrent of anti-israeli and anti-jewish sentiment in revolts across the middle east. we spoke to rebels who say they are fighting gaddafi because he is a dictator but also because they believe he is secretly jewish. in egypt when protesters wanted to insult mubarak, they would write jewish stars of david on mubarak posters trade regimes have deliberately fed people propaganda, blaming all of their internal problems on jews and israel. in this politically charged environment, all of the region's's aspirations and prejudices are coming to the surface. >> stretch ahead, richard goes
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one-on-one with one of the rebel leaders. you will meet him in one minute.
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but it can single handedly determine the american level of commitment to the war and how much the u.s. is willing to devote to the war in terms of money and time and equipment and manpower and risk. >> and right now, rebel forces are waiting and hoping for weapons and air support after two days of a punishing onslaught by gadhafi's tanks and rockets that sent them fleeinging across the desert
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highway. they gave up the ground they gained across from the city of sirte. and richard, you talked to a member of the opposition in benghazi earlier today. >> reporter: there are many members of the opposition here in benghazi. many speak english and highly educated and spoke to a rebel leader today. wealthy, ran a company that imported elevators and swatch watches of all things to libya and now leaving the business to toppling gadhafi, ultimately. that is his goal. you heard president obama's speech last night. what did you think of it? >> i was very impressed. i was very happy that he addressed all the issues and clarified them to us and to the rest of the world. >> reporter: was there something you were looking for that you
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didn't hear? >> i thought he was covered and hearing what the russians claiming and other people and we needed somebody very strong to come out and to actually clarify that this was something that needed to be done. >> reporter: you're from benghazi. benghazi was mentioned in the speech. the war many ways launched to save mbenbenghazi. how did it feel for you here to listen to the speech many. >> to say i was happy would be an understatement. obviously, we like to think it's for the whole of libya but i realize mbenbenghazi became a sl of the opposition for the country and for us to be recognized on the global scene by president obama to be speaking to the whole world and benghazi is something that's being protected, obviously, for us, it's a feeling that, you know, when you have been neglected for 42 years and to tell you the truth the people of libya for many, many years disappointed with the west in general because with the
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atrocities committed not only with libyas but locker by, we thought that the united states and the shootings of fletcher and the united kingdom and other things we always thought that the west are going to do something about this person. and to have them finally actually come in and try to save us, it sort of, you know, we live to sort of believe again that the international community does care about us. >> reporter: where do we go from here? now the west is involved. you say too late but the west is involved now. >> it is not too late. i think there is always a reason. there are many problems in the world. >> reporter: where do we go from here? >> i think gadhafi has to leave. one way or another. >> reporter: how does that happen? what is that one way or another? how do you get him to go? sirte is holding out. how do you push him from power? the west said they won't target gadhafi directly. >> we want from the west to
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nullify the forces. >> reporter: eliminate the forces? >> that are causing damage. suffering. killing innocent people. >> reporter: take them out from the east? >> take them out from the equation. we are responsible and we understand it's not the responsibility of united states or of the coalition. however, as a government, as an opposition in process of establishing a government hopefully when this scenario is concluded, that we are now able to make connections with the west, with other countries that we can bring in our own weapons and we can take the fight to gadhafi in his two strongholds which are sirte and tripoli. with diplomatic and political assistance and pressure from the international community because i think it is in the interest of the whole world to get rid of this person because of his agenda over and over again. this person has threatened to link up with al qaeda. >> reporter: remember, he said he would join al qaeda. >> that's right.
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after accusing us of being al qaeda. this is a person when he threatens he carries it out so i fear also for the european countries and so on. this is the kind of person who would not hesitate to resort to fund people to show them that gadhafi is able to cause damage. >> reporter: i think it's clear from that interview, chris, that we have often described this as a rag tag rebel movement and the fighters of tn ground poorly armed, driving around in the pickup trucks covered in mud and the wrong direction but they have leader that is are --th veolic gl, car jeivesndwa to rch o andembrace the west and take advantage of this opportunity that they have been given. >> although it's also clear there's a lot of discomfort at least on the part of the united states. we heard it from hillary clinton today. they're waiting to see i think both politically and militarily. there are some questions about who these opposition leaders are and if they really do have some
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sort of control structure. is there any structure either on the political or military side in terms of the leadership of the rebels? >> no. there's no structure at all. and i think that's being formed right now. the -- there's no government. the rebels don't really know who's in charge of them. they have small committees. they get together. they try and figure things out by consensus. there's no umbrella superstructure and that would be of great service to the movement to come up with in london if it's done properly, obviously. you don't want a situation with the bond type agreements and put together governments that don't really work for the people. they may work in the conference rooms in europe but not on the ground. right now, no, they don't have a clear government. >> different than what you see on the ground every day, thanks so much. we'll have more from him coming up. president obama took the
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message on libya and the middle east directly to brian williams. you will hear it straight ahead. and today, a massive crackdown against government demonstrators in syria. could the u.s. be headed there next? ♪ professional driver on a closed course. ♪ do not attempt at home. always wear your seat belt. ♪ and please drive responsibly. [ male announcer ] it's the most fun you can legally have. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers on the c-class. the man you've become. and you learned something along the way. about the world. and yourself. ♪ this is the age of knowing what you're made of. and knowing how to get things done. so, why would you let something like erectile dysfunction
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i believe the president's decision to intervene in libya deserves strong bipartisan support. i think his actions were keeping
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with the constitutional powers of the president and with past practices. be it president reagan's action in grenada or the balkans. congress taken even a few days to debate the use of force prior to acting in libya, there would have been nothing left to save in benghazi. >> reporter: we have talked a lot tonight, chris, about arming the rebels and colonel jack jacobs my hero, by the way, told you it's not an easy task. for the last several weeks, we have seen rebels here armed with old weapons, some dating back to world war ii. one rebel showed me he was armed with nothing mor brian williams sat down with the president and he asked, how far the president of the united states is willing to go to arm and help these rebels. >> are you ruling out u.s. military hardware assistance?
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>> i'm not ruling it out but we're not ruling it in. we are makes an assessment of what gadhafi forces are going to be doing. keep in mind, we've been at this now for nine days and the degree to which we degraded gadhafi's forces in those nine days has been significant. operations to protect civilians continue to take out gadhafi's forces, his tanks, artillery on the ground and will continue for some time. one of the questions that we want to answer is, do we start getting to a stage where gadhafi's forces are sufficiently degraded? where it may not be necessary to arm opposition groups but we're not taking anything off the table at this point. libya was a unique situation where a limited military intervention that had a strong international mandate and strong international participation could make the difference life or death difference for a lot of
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people. and in that situation, it made sense. that does in the mean that now is we are going to go around trying to use military force to impose or apply certain forms of government. let's take the ivory coast. you've got a situation there where a guy, the previous president lost an election. he had international observers. everybody knows he lost and using the thugs to try to stay in power and intimidate the opposition and the duly elected president in that situation we are applying a whole range of diplomatic forces and trying to organize with african countries and neighbors to isolate this guy, encourage him to leave and put pressure on him. there are a whole range of tools available but that doesn't necessarily mean that the tool to use is the military one. the point i tried to make yesterday is this. when it comes to a potential
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direct attack against the united states, one of our allies, an attack on, you know, u.s. troops anywhere in the world, there we unilaterally and une equivalentically preserve the right to use force to defend our core interests. but they're going to be a range of other situations where we do have an interest. we'd like to see a particular outcome. but on balance, the costs and benefits of military intervention don't make sense. and you eve got to look at each particular situation to say, given the tool kit that we have, given the cost and risk of military intervention, given the possibility that we may be able to apply diplomatic pressure in the situation or economic sanctions and that might have a better outcome. >> reporter: so there, the president is openly wondering whether there will be a point when gadhafi's forces are quote
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sufficiently degraded so that arming the rebels is no longer necessary. will the rebels be able to do this themselves? can they go from benghazi and reach tripoli? if what we saw today is any evidence, that's -- we're not anywhere near that, chris. >> we are already hearing from washington the debate that's starting over whether or not to arm the rebels and one of the question that is being raised, members of congress wantlso wan you touched on this a little bit about these reports that the anti-gadhafi forces have members of al qaeda abe even hezbollah part of them. in '90s in eastern libya there were a number of organization that is did have ties to terrorist groups, including wlakd. what can you hell us about that now? >> reporter: there's a group called the libyan fighting group
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based mostly in the city of darna. the gadhafi regime released about 110 members of the organization, and they are out here. the libyan fighting group is on the ground. and there are many other rebel groups and militant groups operating in the area, even the somali group el shabab operates inside of libya. it is a country where there is little central command right now. there is no central command so just pouring weapons, sophisticated weapons into the country would be very dangerous. and going back to that point, it is not just shipping in ak-47s. they want as colonel jack said, helicopters over the heads. they want to be in radio contact with pilots. that would certainly be a safer option for the world than just dumping in stinger missiles here into a place where there's really no control. >> obviously, the concern being if you start bringing in
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trainers then that adds to the length of time that we might be involved in a drawn-out civil war. richard engel -- >> reporter: you are at war. >> thank you so much. meanwhile, we get you onst thugutheide st they're making a lot of people in washington very nervous about future u.s. military intervention outside of libya, potentially. that's next. stng i taalci. t docto mmoci splemen aren't absorbed properly unless taken with food. he recommended citracal. it's different -- it's calcium citrate, so it can be absorbed with or without food.
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richard, with libya on the plate, we heard your interview with the one member of the opposition and wondering in a broader sense, do you get a sense of nervousness of how long the u.s. and nato are involved in libya? >> yeah. it's clear why they don't want this obama doctrine to be out there. there are always wars going on in africa and the white housesh cae ce ocngn e or and say please intervene for our case. yes, on the ground, there are a certain nervousness that the nato and international help won't be as direct, won't be as aggressive as american assistance. momentum in war does matter and there is a feeling on the ground that this war could be either very short and over in the next week to ten days or they could lose momentum and this is going to take months. but this is not the only crisis going on in the middle east right now. there are brutal crackdowns
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under way for several weeks now in syria, in yes, ma'am b. there was a brutal crackdown in bahrain and your dan, my colleague has more on the crackdown, specifically in syria and yemen. ron? >> reporter: good morning, tof. yes, we have been hear in amman a week or so now. we came here because there was a real upsurge and spasm of violence in some demonstrations last friday when one protester was killed and perhaps 100 were wounded in clashes between pro and anti-government forces. we have also been keeping an eye on syria and yemen which both appear to be reaching something of a tipping point. there's still tens of thousands of people demanding change in those countries and also a significant number of people dying as they continue fighting to end oppression.
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today, tens of thousands jammed syria's capital damascus. near a giant portrait of the president. some no doubt there to support him. some workers ordered to come and many came to support the promise of reform like lifting 50 years of emergency laws to give the dictatorship the power and the cabinet quit as assad prepares to address the nation on wednesday. for nearly two weeks, syria veered between crackdowns and concessions. dozens have died according to human rights groups. many a bordertown where witnesses say security forces fired into the crowd. syria remains closed to most foreigners. >> you live near the central mosque? >> cross the boarder in jordan, we met this syrian, too terrified to show his face.
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he said he saw friends and neighbors killed. others said the death toll here is much higher than the figures reported on this side of the border, perhaps 200. a number we can't independently confirm and told that syrian security forces are gegt help from iran. the government also blames outsiders for inciting the unrest. two americans remain in custody, an engineer working there and a college student studying abroad accused of backing anti-government protesters. meanwhile, the u.s. also watches yemen where the president stays while tens of thousands demand he go. including several top military and tribal leaders. >> the international community, the united states and the europeans should stand firmly with the yemeni nation and with their wish to have the change. >> reporter: america worries about scenes like these this week.
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militants sympathetic to al qaeda with military hardware seized from a weapons storehouse. the building had exploded killing perhaps 150 people. critics accused the president of making it easier for militants, hoping to convince the world he should keep a stronghold on power. u.s. fears more weeks of instability gives al qaeda an opportunity to organize an attack. in yemen, the talks continue to try to find to way a create a transition of power but the president dug in the heels staying he'll stay until the beginning of next year and new elections and in syria, expecting to finally hear from the president sometime today, a much-anticipated speech that could determine peace or more violence there. richard? >> ron, ron, i was shocked by one thing in your report. the iranian security forces helping the syrian security forces to crush this rebellion. now, do you know more about that dynamic?
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that would be an incredible international development. >> reporter: yes. and i figured that you would hear that. we heard that from a couple of the people we talked to in the jordanian border town coming axrosz from syria. a lot of workers go back and forth. they said in the security forces they saw who they thought were iranians and not perhaps a surprise because, of course, syria and iran have close relations and iran is interested in what happened in syria and so much of what happens in syria isn't independently confirmed. we can't get in there. there's only a handful of western journalists in there and the movements are restricted, but yes, that set off an alarm bell and something trying to find out more if we can. richard? >> yeah, it would be a major you in person soon in cairo or
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somewhere else in the neighborhood. now back to chris in new york. >> thanks to both of you. joining us now to talk about the u.s. role in the region is steven clemens, senior fellow with the new american foundation. let me start with what they were talking about. if we're seeing iranian security forces helping out in syria, would you be shocked and what are the implications? >> not all. i think iran is tending to its equities in the region. it's not -- it's been part of syria's neighborhood and support structure for quite a while. iran is also a supporter and funder of many of the muslim brotherhood affiliates in the region. and some of the nonstate movements in the broader middle east and so, you know, you have often had this concern that the saudis and iranians using the middle east as a place to struggle with each other and clearly syria is part of iran's game in the chess board with the
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saudis. >> ron mentioned that the syrian president assad had a big speech, fired the cabinet, says he's going to lift emergency rule and take other actions to appease protesters. obviously, that did not work for the presidents of egypt, the president of tunisia. can it work in syria? >> well, it's really interesting because just a few weeks ago, jay solomon of "the wall street with assad and he really thought that syria would remain immune to the protests and they were content with the circumstances. had more hathan enough opportuny to express grievances. he is behind the events of the rules in the region find themselves trying to catch up and do something, anything, to basically take the pressure off -- off of themselves and to
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try to accommodate the demands of people in the streetsor create the appearance. >> i'm sure you heard the speech today, john mccain picked up on president obama's point thinking that libya is different from other hot spots in the region. let me play a clip of what he said. >> let's be clear. gadhafi's brutal and vicious slaughter of fellow arabs and muslims has set libya completely apart from other countries in the region. and it warranted the decisive military response we and our international partners have taken. >> in your view, is it very different from, for example, what we're seeing in syria and is it likely to remain different from what we're seeing in other countries in that region? >> i think the notion that every country is different requires a different playbook will matter in a different way to america's strategic interests and hum humanitarian concerns is right.
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the interesting thing of syria, the engagement recently is minimal. we put an ambassador, normalized to a certain degree relations with syria again but it's a very testy relationship and our ability to manipulate syria or seduce syria is quite limited. libya is different. along the line of richard engel said, i believe no matter what john mccain and barack obama might be wanting the do with this important humanitarian mission, i understand where they're at, you still create an appetite for the possible intervention in other cases and when you look at the quality of opposition, say, in egypt and compare it to what's in libya, they're just very different. if you look at the quality of opposition in syria which we really don't know much about, it's very hard to determine. this is a tsunami, it is a major, major storm, and it is, i think, worrisome to see many trying to figure out a cookie cutter approach of a standard
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formula for american engagement or nonengagement in each of the cases. >> steven clemens, thanks so much. >> thanks, chris. secretary of state hillary clinton laid out the plan today. tomorrow she's back in washington before congress, this time, though, behind closed doors and classified. funny how nature just knows how to make things that are good for you. new v8 v-fusion + tea. one combined serving of vegetables and fruit with the goodness of green tea and powerful antioxidants. refreshingly good. i can't just wash it away. killing it takes clinical strength. i only use lotrimin ultra. its powerful formula can even cure severe cases of athlete's foot. nothing cures better. lotrimin ultra. the killer cure.
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tomorrow on capitol hill there will be a closed classified briefing for congress by defense secretary robert gates, secretary of state hillary clinton and joint chiefs chairman mike mullen. they'll be facing fierce criticism for sure and tough questions as the administration decides among other things whether to arm the rebels. i'm joined by democratic senator from north carolina kay hagen. good to see you, senator, good evening. >> good evening, chris. >> you have supported this mission on humanitarian grounds. will you go to the meeting tomorrow, that briefing, and what questions do you still
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have? >> i will certainly be at that briefing tomorrow, and i think there just needs to be an understanding that there should not be a protracted, long, open-ended conflict here. we have 100,000 soldiers in afghanistan now. that should be our main fight. >> but there does seem to be little hope that this will be resolved quickly. the president is considering among other things giving arms to the rebels. do you think that's something he should do? >> well, i am the subcommittee chair of the emerging threats subcommittee of the senate arms services committee an before we look at the strategy, we need to have consultation with congress and come to a bipartisan resolution on this issue. >> well, obviously, that will start in some part tomorrow. what do you want to hear from the secretary of defense of secretary of state? >> one thing that i do want to mention and that is that the marines from north carolina from camp lejeune and cherry point did a heroic mission in libya.
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within 20 hours, they had mobilized 400 individuals, men and women to go, and you know the f-15 fighter jet that crashed due to a malfunctioning, these marines were able to within three hours in the middle of the night able to rescue the pilot and the libyans rescued the weapons officer. i have a nephew that flies the f-15 and i know the bravery and courage to pilot those and i think the marines did an incredible job. >> no ubt about that. i think there's no doubt about the quality of the men and women who are serving and certainly who have contributed to this mission but are you concerned about whether there is an out strategy, how long this will go on? >> i think key point is that we have coalition forces working with us. and that this is not something where the u.s. is doing this alone. i think that's one of the key points and obviously we don't want a protracted, open-ended conflict here. >> one of the things that secretary clinton said today is
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she is not ruling out a political solution in which a moammar gadhafi would leave libya. do you think as a practical mat they are's likely to happen? >> we realize moammar gadhafi is not a suitable leader. when he says he'll go house to house to massacre his own people, he should not be the ruler. i think we need to use all economic and political ties that we have in order to be sure that he does not stay in power. >> but you don't have a firm sense right now of how far to go militarily to see that happen? >> i think we'll have a good discussion tomorrow with secretary gates, secretary clinton and admiral mike mullen. >> kay elieves it's a turning point. you have covered so many of the conflicts. does it feel like we're at kind of a momentous point right now to you? >> no.
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it certainly doesn't. it feels like we're heading toward a stalemate and the temptation might be, well, if we just give the rebels a bunch of weapons and dump them here in libya they can do for themselves. having weapons come here is not going to turn this rebel movement into an army, and i don't think it's going to be over any time soon unless there's a massive onslaught and gadhafi's forces are decimated and his -- there's a defection within. that could turn this quickly. if we're going to wait for the rebels to march from here, going through sirte very heavily fortified including with land mines we'll be waiting a very long time. bombardment, an internal coupe could end it quickly or i'll be looking for an apartment here. >> won't be the first time you got an apartment in a far flung place in the world. we'll be back with some final thoughts. intelligence that's helping business rethink how to do business. in here, machines tell factories when they're thirsty.
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and now we are heading into day 11 of the u.s. involvement in libya and a big day on capitol hill tomorrow. 2:30 eastern time, a closed-door classified briefing for congress. the secretary of state will be there, secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. and maybe influencing some very crucial decisions that are going to be made going forward including as we have been talking about this hour whether the u.s. will arm the rebels in i'chew i'll be back here tomorrow morning. richard and i will be back tomorrow night 11:00 p.m. eastern. it's dawn breaking there, richard. does that mean you get a couple of hours sleep? >> not too many hours but it's interesting that you called this the u.s. involvement in libya. now, involvement is a great word because it